
Alex Dunn:
Hello, that is Alex Dunn. I’m the founder and CEO of Cephable, and that is your Assistive Know-how Replace.
Josh Anderson:
Hi there and welcome to your Assistive Know-how Replace, a weekly dose of data that retains you updated on the most recent developments within the discipline of know-how designed to help people with disabilities and particular wants. I’m your host, Josh Anderson with the INDATA Challenge at Easterseals Crossroads in stunning Indianapolis, Indiana. Welcome to episode 706 of Assistive Know-how Replace. It’s scheduled to be launched on December sixth, 2024. On as we speak’s present, we’re tremendous excited to welcome again Alex Dunn. Alex is the founder and CEO of Cephable, and he’s right here to inform us how this software program can help people with a number of totally different wants with accessing the gadgets that they rely on day-after-day.
We even have a fast story a couple of new exoskeleton go well with that might be able to help people with their mobility. Due to all our listeners who listened to our vacation present giving information final week, all the time loved to do this and to get some members of our crew right here within the studio to file. Don’t neglect, we’re all the time in search of your suggestions as nicely, so you may all the time attain us at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org or name our listener line at (317) 721-7124. We all the time like to listen to your opinions, your feedback, your questions, your critiques. Hey, we’ll take these as nicely. Or if you already know someone which may make a very good visitor on the present, we’d like to have that additionally. However for proper now, let’s go forward and get on with the present.
Of us, we can not thanks sufficient for giving us a pay attention right here at Assistive Know-how Replace, however do you know that this isn’t the one podcast that we’ve? It’s also possible to take a look at our sister present Assistive Know-how Steadily Requested Questions. This present comes out as soon as a month and it options panelists, Belva Smith, Brian Norton, and myself as we attempt to reply the questions which might be plaguing your thoughts about assistive know-how. We collect up all of the questions we get in the course of the month from emails, cellphone calls, and lots of different means, after which we do our greatest to reply them. However I acquired to inform you of us, consider it or not, we have no idea all the things. So we depend on our listeners rather a lot to achieve out to us and provides us a few of these solutions or possibly simply speak about their private experiences and issues which have occurred to them.
So in the event you like Assistive know-how Replace, you might very nicely love Assistive Know-how Steadily Requested Questions. Once more, it’s Assistive Know-how Steadily Requested Questions the place you will get your questions on assistive know-how answered, or in the event you occur to have the solutions to among the questions requested on that present, please, please do attain out and tell us in order that we may help the neighborhood with the solutions that they so desperately search. Very similar to Assistive Know-how Replace, you’ll find Assistive Know-how Steadily Requested Questions wherever you favor to get your podcast. And as all the time listeners, thanks for listening. Okay, very quickly listeners, we’ll get into our interview with Alex as he tells us about Cephable and simply the superb manner this software program can actually improve entry. However for our first story as we speak, we speak a little bit bit extra about {hardware} and entry, not a lot entry to computer systems, however entry to your entire world round us.
So our first story as we speak comes from over at Tech Occasions and it’s titled KAIST’s WalkON Swimsuit F1. This know-how brings independence to paraplegics, smashes Cybathlon. It’s written by Jose Enrico and it talks about an AI powered exoskeleton known as the WalkON Swimsuit F1. This was made by Korea Superior Institute of Science and Know-how, and it’s truly thought of a breakthrough in from what it actually says right here simply due to the entire further options which might be constructed into it to actually hopefully be capable of give of us much more independence than among the different exoskeleton fits. So you’ll have seen… I do know I’ve seen it, I feel across the Particular Olympics and possibly a number of different issues, a few of these exoskeleton fits in order that a person who’s unable to ambulate independently can use a tool comparable to this to stroll round, consider simply form of the exoskeleton legs and the way they will transfer the legs and all the things else, and there’s totally different controllers and other ways to make them work.
However this one appears prefer it has a few further elements, and I’ll put a hyperlink to this over within the present notes that you could go test it out. However one factor that I actually like that it talks about in right here is that it truly has settings in there that the place it might probably simply stroll up on to the person within the wheelchair and form of assist them get into the go well with. So that you don’t even must have anybody provide help to get into the form of exoskeleton. You may basically simply name it over, have it come over, after which leap up in it so that you just’re ready to make use of that to ambulate if that’s what you wish to do. And it says that this know-how actually got here out of getting a entrance docking system that enables of us to transition a little bit bit simpler. It additionally has steadiness management mechanism that can change and transfer to counterbalance the middle of gravity to keep away from falls.
It says whether or not a person can stroll upright and use each palms freely to work and even stroll brief distance with out requiring cane or crutches. Appears like simply form of another issues in there. Does have AI and for an individualized expertise, it has a built-in onboard neural community and learns methods to adapt to totally different customers and environments. It additionally has impediment detection to assist out whilst you’re shifting round and miss out on knocking into some issues and all the things else. There’s a little bit bit extra on this go well with within the story, so I’ll put a hyperlink to it over within the present notes that you could test it out. And possibly that is one thing we’ll see on the market on the streets right here hopefully sometime to assist people ambulate in any manner they could select.
Listeners as we speak I’m tremendous excited to welcome again Alex Dunn. Now, Alex was a visitor again in September of 2022 on episode 589 of our present to speak about Enabled Play. And in case you have an opportunity, you might wish to return and take heed to that present only for outdated occasions sake, however rather a lot has modified since final we spoke. After all, we’re all two years older and Enabled Play has grown into Cephable, and I do know that I’m excited to be taught all about Cephable and the way it can improve entry and independence for people with numerous disabilities and boundaries to entry and inclusion. Alex, welcome again to the present.
Alex Dunn:
Thanks a lot for having me.
Josh Anderson:
Yeah, I’m actually excited to get into speaking about Cephable and all the things, however because it’s been so lengthy since we had you on, may you begin us off by telling our listeners a little bit bit about your self?
Alex Dunn:
Yeah, so my background’s in largely utilized machine studying, product engineering, issues like that. On the time, truly once I was right here final, we had been speaking about Enabled Play. I wasn’t even full-time on it then. It was nonetheless largely a ardour mission of me hand constructing adaptive controls and doing machine studying stuff in my basement. However all of it initially began from analysis I used to be doing to help a youthful brother of mine, he’s 15 years youthful than me with a incapacity and attempting to create new methods for him to play video games and sustain together with his pals in video games like Minecraft and Roblox on the time.
And so I began engaged on new types of doing issues like speech recognition for voice controls, new methods to make use of that in several video games and apps, utilizing face expressions and gestures. And principally something that isn’t a bodily swap that you need to hit or a mouse you need to transfer or a joystick you may have to have the ability to transfer to be able to do issues in, what, on the time was initially simply video games. After which that become a number of stuff in schooling entry, particularly because the pandemic got here by means of and a number of, if not all schooling grew to become a digital first ecosystem. And since then been targeted on bringing Cephable to the world in workplaces, at residence, and digital accessibility and private AT and simply all the things in between. So yeah.
Josh Anderson:
Superior. And I feel you led me proper into my subsequent query. So I assume, and we had been going to dig into all of those, however simply what’s Cephable?
Alex Dunn:
Yeah, so Cephable is an AI software program platform that empowers people to manage applied sciences, actually simply ways in which work finest for them. You may obtain the app totally free, for private use on Mac on PC. You will get the companion app on iOS and Android, after which basically you may inform Cephable’s AI how you’ll want to entry sure apps. So I may say one thing like, “I would like to make use of Microsoft Phrase and I would like voice controls for all of the shortcuts and dictation, after which I additionally want it once I transfer my head round that the cursor will transfer on the web page,” after which it units it up for you so that you just’re off and working with these controls. So you employ our adaptive voice controls that adapt to your speech over time, together with of us with restricted or impaired speech. You should use simply your webcam out of your pc in case you have a laptop computer or an exterior webcam to trace your face and head motion.
And all of that’s working offline on gadget, completely non-public, personalised and accessible from the start. After which on prime of our free variations, we’ve Cephable Skilled, which is supposed for workplaces and worker experiences as an lodging for workers with disabilities or an ergonomic software or simply usually a productiveness software. After which we even have instruments that allow builders to combine Cephable’s controls natively into their very own experiences. So in the event you’re constructing an app or a sport otherwise you’re constructing your personal gadgets, you may add issues like adaptive voice controls, head actions, face expressions, multi-device controls, stuff like that finally to empower people to stroll or roll as much as your expertise and have that have in an accessible manner that’s personalised to them.
Josh Anderson:
Good. And Alex, you stated that it’s free for people to make use of. Why did you ensure that it was free? Why is that essential?
Alex Dunn:
Yeah, I imply, the price of assistive know-how a number of occasions is it’s astronomical. And what I discovered as I began actually moving into the AT house for the final kind of 5 years is that price tends to be the most important barrier to of us getting the assistive know-how that they want. Even on the time when… final time I used to be right here I used to be speaking about Enabled Play. I used to be constructing {hardware} gadgets and you’d use the cell app to manage it. And I used to be constructing them and promoting them and delivery them, and I used to be attempting to promote them for as low price as potential. I wasn’t attempting to make a bunch of cash off of it, however even then, I feel we had been promoting it for $250 every. For what it did, affordable value in comparison with all the things else. However one of many issues that even I heard immediately from so many individuals is like, “I attempted this at my state’s assistive know-how program or AT lab, and it was life-changing for me, however I can’t afford $250 for it. What can I do?”
And so on the time, I used to be already engaged on this software program solely method to it the place you didn’t want this exterior {hardware} to have the ability to run in your current computer systems and gadgets. And that was kind of the place I noticed there was a possibility to vary the enterprise mannequin, particularly as we began getting extra concerned in enterprises and the worker expertise the place we may do this aspect kind of commercially and use it as a strategy to allow it to be free for people for any of that private use you need. So whether or not you’re enjoying video games or simply utilizing it for media controls at residence or simply looking or no matter you’re doing in your private gadgets is a strategy to kind of dismantle and disrupt what we name the incapacity tax that a person has to pay much more for his or her assistive know-how to make use of the identical gadgets that they nonetheless must pay for within the first place, whether or not it’s a pill, a pc, or a laptop computer or perhaps a sport console.
In order that’s all the time kind of been the main focus and drive, and it actually simply got here from speaking to our neighborhood and customers of the kind of early variations I used to be attempting to make.
Josh Anderson:
Good, good. And as an AT act, I acquired to say, I actually do respect it as a result of yeah, a number of occasions we’ll present of us stuff in our lab or allow them to borrow it, attempt it out and all the things, however then yeah, you get to that incapacity tax and it’s like, “Oh man, this might actually make an enormous distinction, however how on the planet am I going to afford it?” So it’s nice to have the ability to inform them, “We may help you obtain it in your gadget and you’ll run with it straight from there.” You talked about among the totally different strategies. What are all of the totally different strategies that Cephable lets me management my pc with?
Alex Dunn:
So you should use adaptive voice controls, which you should use for voice shortcuts and something throughout any apps. It’s also possible to use it for full dictation, so writing what you converse as you converse, after which you are able to do issues with head motion, so like tilting and turning and leaning along with your head. You are able to do face expressions, like totally different eyebrow controls and mouth controls simply utilizing the digital camera. After which we even have, for our companion app, you may arrange digital buttons on the app. So in case you have a pill or a cellphone, you may arrange a grid of buttons and even only a single mega button to faucet to do issues. After which you can too use your cellphone or pill’s movement management, so tilting, turning, shaking the gadget to ship inputs and any and all of these issues all on the similar time plus every other bodily enter gadget you may need, whether or not it’s a swap enter, a keyboard and mouse, a sport pad.
Our objective kind of carry all of that to the forefront. And that’s actually the place we’re at now. We’re all the time introducing, particularly throughout the digital camera controls, new issues from eye monitoring at hand and physique gesture monitoring and simply extra distinctive issues that we are able to begin to detect. Attempting to steadiness introducing these issues with out making it cumbersome and complicated to make use of as nicely is kind of the present challenges we face. However it’s a number of various things you should use. So finally if you’ll want to change a keyboard and mouse since you aren’t ready to make use of it out of the field, you should use simply Cephable or you may increase these various kinds of gadgets with these adaptive controls as nicely.
Josh Anderson:
No, and I like the way you give all of the choices. It’s not made for only one individual with one form of want. And I’m positive that’s in all probability one thing that you just may need discovered over time with Enabled Play and all the things else as nicely.
Alex Dunn:
Yeah, it’s precisely proper. I imply, everybody’s acquired a special perfect setup, and so it’s about personalizing it and it’s a mixture of making it tremendous customizable with out making it extraordinarily difficult to customise as nicely. As you already know a number of… particularly digital assistive know-how, it might probably change into a configuration ache over time and it’s like, oh, it’s an entire different factor I’ve to be taught. And that’s the place we’re leaning on a few of our newer AI capabilities the place you principally can simply inform Cephable what you need it to do, and it simply form of does it with out having to be within the depths of configurations and macros and stuff like that, which after all you may nonetheless do. We’ve got energy customers that go bananas and dive all the way in which in, and so they construct these actually giant and sturdy macros and so they’re having a great time, however most individuals simply need… they’ve a single objective, they’ve a particular want they wish to begin with, and so we’re attempting to make it as simple as potential to set that up too.
Josh Anderson:
I undoubtedly… as an AT skilled, I respect that. I all the time hope, and it’s a kind of dangerous issues, I all the time hope there’s a day the place simply nobody wants me anymore. The whole lot’s simply accessible and works and isn’t actually wanted. However yeah, listeners, I can inform you simply once I discovered about it and actually began enjoying it with it inside a couple of minutes, I feel I gave a PowerPoint presentation and used the top gestures simply to undergo simply to see how simple it was to make use of. And I imply, it took minutes to actually, I imply as soon as this downloaded to form of arrange and stand up and dealing. So I imply, if it’s a buddy, a member of the family, your self, you don’t must be a tech guru or something to actually get it up and get it working and determine among the issues it might probably do, however I like that there’s the choice there that if you’re that techie one that actually desires to simply dig in and make it superb, you do have the power to have the ability to get in there and do this as nicely.
Alex Dunn:
Josh Anderson:
Alex, as I used to be wanting by means of all the things, you additionally… simply form of wanting on the Cephable web site and all the things, I discovered a consortium on there. Are you able to inform me about that?
Alex Dunn:
Sure. Oh my gosh. I like our consortium. So it’s a program we arrange and I’ve to shout out Julia Franklin, our chief studying officer. She additionally manages our neighborhood companions and John Campbell, who’s our director of engineering, they’re those that basically drive the consortium, however it’s our neighborhood of customers which might be a part of our product growth cycle. So that they’re of us that get compensated for his or her time. We be taught as a lot as potential about them, not simply throughout the assistive know-how they use, however simply what their pursuits are, what they love to do, what their experiences are, what their objectives are. They be a part of this kind of sub-community of the larger Cephable neighborhood, after which we work with them on the product aspect from early concept and ideas we’ve for options all the way in which to suggestions on designs to person testing, to getting early betas. We do some storytelling with them too, and finally it’s very core to how we proceed to develop Cephable out.
So there’s nothing that exists within the Cephable app at this level or any of the platforms and even the SDKs that hasn’t gone by means of our consortium of customers. So it ranges in of us’ wants by the disabilities that they dwell with to the objectives that they’ve with their know-how, areas that they arrive from. We try to principally construct simply as numerous of a core group of individuals as we are able to to simply make the product work for everybody. To your level earlier, everybody has a special setup and Cephable needs to be customizable to fulfill everybody’s distinctive preferences. And in order that’s the way in which we kind of go about doing it from the start. We construct with our neighborhood from day one.
Josh Anderson:
Properly, and I like one thing you stated there since you talked about not simply the folks have totally different wants however totally different desires. They wish to do various things. This isn’t a program that’s going to work in, you talked about Phrase, it’s simply going to work in Phrase. No, it might probably work throughout these different ones. So I like that you just’re not simply how would you want to make use of this, how can this be extra accessible, however what would you love to do with it? And actually discovering out and taking that enter. I’m positive it simply provides to, nicely, the usability and simply the numerous various things that it might probably do. Alex, you introduced this up in the beginning. We’ve talked rather a lot concerning the people, however how can Cephable assist companies be extra accessible?
Alex Dunn:
So there’s two methods we do this. One is in empowering their crew members, which is utilizing the identical issues that the non-public model has plus some further extra skilled options like person administration and single sign-on stuff that a number of enterprises anticipate, however it’s basically empowering the workforce to have a a lot decrease price and accessible software obtainable for his or her staff. And so we’ve finished some cool issues there.
For instance, like Intel and Accenture, we put out a white paper and a video showcasing principally Intel and Accenture staff that had been utilizing Cephable. And one of many cool issues that we discovered that we weren’t anticipating throughout that preliminary testing part and coaching part and stuff like that’s how many individuals that truly didn’t establish as having a incapacity acquired a ton of nice worth out of the platform too as an ergonomic software to keep away from repeated pressure accidents in order that in the event you’re kind of on the restrict of what your wrists and palms can deal with on a keyboard and mouse, as an alternative of getting to go memorize keyboard shortcuts to be more practical, you may principally simply arrange voice instructions as an awesome instance, or simply of us that simply inform Cephable’s AI the apps they’re utilizing and so they use voice alongside every other enter too.
So there’s some attention-grabbing stats that got here out of that. However yeah, we proceed to work with companies. You may leap in and arrange a free trial tremendous simply, arrange as many crew members as you’ll want to use Cephable. There’s built-in coaching, an entire bunch extra pre-built set of management profiles for various apps and all types of help and stuff that include that from our crew. The opposite aspect of what we do is enabling product engineers and builders and groups to make their apps and their video games extra accessible. So whether or not you’re constructing an app for a financial institution otherwise you’re constructing a AAA online game, there’s a possibility to introduce Cephable controls to that have too, outdoors of what you could possibly already do on the PC out of the field, so something previous the keyboard and mouse.
Think about you roll as much as a kiosk at a restaurant that’s not accessible as a result of it’s depending on simply the touchscreen interface to manage it. With the ability to truly as an alternative use issues like your face expressions and head gestures and voice controls and stuff on the go, otherwise you’re in a cell app that isn’t very accessible by way of tab navigation and issues like that, however with the ability to simply inform it what you want it to do, these are the kinds of experiences we’re enabling now. Otherwise you’re constructing a sport that runs on Xbox and I can’t use an Xbox controller or bodily inputs, or I would like a little bit bit extra to play that sport that’s a little bit quicker paced or aggressive, nicely, possibly I can use an Xbox adaptive controller, however then I may additionally use my cellphone’s digital camera and microphone to ship stuff to the sport as nicely. So these are the kinds of issues we allow there.
Josh Anderson:
Oh, that’s tremendous cool. And the sky’s form of the restrict I really feel like on the issues that it would be capable of do, and I’m excited to see the place that goes.
Alex Dunn:
Yeah. And I feel the opposite foremost factor about it’s that it’s not nearly making your app or your sport or your gadget accessible or extra accessible, it’s additionally truly connecting to the neighborhood of individuals with disabilities. For companies, it may be checking a field on accessibility, however actually what we do is assist join our customers to the apps and experiences which might be extra accessible to them now as a result of they’re built-in with Cephable controls, and for these companies that turns into a person acquisition channel they really can’t simply be accessible, they will truly attain new clients in a manner. So yeah, it’s kind of like that bridging the hole from our neighborhood that desires to search out the issues that they will do extra simply now to the companies which might be enabling it to carry these two collectively.
Josh Anderson:
Good. That’s superior. That’s superior. I’m positive you may have tons of those, Alex, however are you able to inform me a narrative or two about how Cephable made a optimistic impression on a person’s life, or possibly even a manner somebody used it that even stunned you?
Alex Dunn:
Yeah, okay. One in every of my more moderen favourite… I’ve acquired so many, however considered one of my more moderen favourite ones, truly considered one of our consortium members, her identify’s Hogan, she is now an legal professional, however once we first met her, she was ending up regulation faculty. She truly used Cephable in the course of the bar examination and handed the bar examination with Cephable, which I feel was fairly cool. A number of different assistive applied sciences in proctored exams get blocked as a result of if they’ve an web connection or if they’ve any technique of principally being exploited to cheat on the examination, then they simply get blocked, which for the sake of the examination, you don’t need folks dishonest. However for folks with disabilities, you simply eliminated their means to take part. So it’s fairly exclusionary. However she was in a position to get Cephable authorised by means of the bar examination proctoring group, and was in a position to truly use our dictation and voice controls to take the multi-question exams to dictate into the essay elements of the examination.
Now she’s an legal professional down in North Carolina simply doing a little superb stuff, particularly round incapacity rights and incapacity inclusion. So I feel that’s my most up-to-date favourite one as a result of it was simply from this previous summer time, however there there’s so many extra from folks with the ability to play video games with their family and friends that weren’t in a position to earlier than to folks getting jobs the place they had been dealing with challenges with the lodging choices that an enterprise had that they had been attempting to get a job in any respect the way in which to college students which might be utilizing it of their speech and occupational remedy, discovering that they’re getting improved outcomes out of gamifying these remedy classes utilizing Cephable controls.
Josh Anderson:
Oh, that’s superior. That’s completely nice. If our listeners wish to discover out extra and even obtain Cephable for themselves, what’s a great way for them to do this?
Alex Dunn:
Yeah, undoubtedly. You may simply go proper to the web site, it’s cephable.com. After which I additionally undoubtedly wish to plug our Discord neighborhood too, so you will get there from the web site, or in the event you go on Discord, you may seek for Cephable. We’ve acquired tons of individuals there who aren’t simply sharing their experiences and concepts, however they’ll even share… folks will share the controls that they’re constructing. So whenever you construct a set of controls for an app, you may share these with the world and other people get their very own copy of it. So there’s a number of cool stuff you will get there and never simply utilizing the app and taking it residence with you, however truly becoming a member of the neighborhood. And I feel it’s one of the best ways to get as a lot out of the platform as you may.
Josh Anderson:
No, that’s nice. I like that individuals are sharing their particular setups and all the things. Then if you’re a brand new person and possibly you wish to get a little bit bit extra in depth and it offers you some concepts in some locations and a few methods to start out, that’s nice. That’s nice. Yeah, it sounds such as you’re constructing much more than just a bit bit extra accessible, however sort of a complete neighborhood of oldsters to work and assist one another out. That’s nice.
Alex Dunn:
Yeah, precisely. I imply, I feel lots of people have questions and concepts on how they use a software like Cephable, and it’s higher to share these with the neighborhood since you’ll discover lots of people which have the identical objectives, the identical preferences, and the identical kinds of setup. And so you will get by means of a number of these complications of configuring AT or saying, “Does it work with this,” as a result of there’s lots of people who’ve tried it earlier than you.
Josh Anderson:
So that they both know that it really works or it doesn’t, or they discovered that work round on their very own and acquired it there.
Alex Dunn:
I assume on prime of our web site, you may take a look at any of our socials on Instagram or X or LinkedIn. We’re simply at Cephable all over the place. Additionally, if you wish to check out the controls earlier than you even obtain the app to see in the event that they’re best for you, we’ve a very enjoyable strategy to attempt it. You will get to it from the web site or simply go to attempt.cephable.com and you’ll play the sport 2048, that little kind of combining numbers to attempt to get them to 2048 on a board along with your head motion or along with your voice. So you may check out the totally different sensitivity settings to your head controls, check out the totally different speech recognition settings for voice controls and simply principally expertise what it’s earlier than you even obtain something, which I feel is fairly cool.
Josh Anderson:
Superior. Superior. Properly, Alex, thanks a lot for coming again on the present, for telling us all about Cephable and we love simply… and listeners, in the event you do get an opportunity, do return and take heed to that first episode 589 again in September. Simply it’s enjoyable to match and distinction. I imply, the fervour’s nonetheless there, the usability’s nonetheless there, however I like how it’s simply grown into such an even bigger software, not simply gaming, not simply form of such as you stated, a {hardware} gadget that connects and is ready to do stuff, however one thing that’s obtainable in so many various locations and for therefore many various wants. So Alex, thanks once more for approaching and sharing and telling us all about it.
Alex Dunn:
Yeah, thanks a lot for having me.
Josh Anderson:
Do you may have a query about assistive know-how? Do you may have a suggestion for somebody we must always interview on Assistive Know-how Replace? If that’s the case, name our listener line at (317) 721-7124. Ship us an e mail at tech@eastersealscrossroads.org or shoot us a notice on Twitter at INDATA Challenge. Our captions and transcripts for the present are sponsored by the Indiana Phone Relay Entry Company or INTRAC. You could find out extra about INTRAC at relayindiana.com. A particular due to Nikol Prieto for scheduling our superb company and making a multitude of my schedule. At this time’s present is produced, edited, hosted, and fraught over by yours actually. The opinions expressed by our company are their very own and should or might not mirror these of the INDATA Challenge, Easterseals Crossroads, our supporting companions, or this host. This was your Assistive Know-how Replace. I’m Josh Anderson with the INDATA Challenge at Easterseals Crossroads in stunning Indianapolis, Indiana. We stay up for seeing you subsequent time. Bye-bye.